Fig Jam 477cc ;)

[Sasa]

I cant help myself, Seems Im not alone

Might be some interest in a 500cc Himalayan after all

Well Pablo has made one himself, he's has a good follow here in Italy so I guess that would stirr some interest here!

He went also the extra mile and lightened up the crankshaf and the balancer to make the bike pick up revs faster... He doesn't have (to my knowledge) ha BV head nor the head is ported, so I guess that would still put @Dool in the lead somehow?

I'm not entirely convinced of this mod on the crankshaft, but hey he works for a Moto3 team, so he probably knows better!

 

[Dool]

Well Pablo has made one himself, he's has a good follow here in Italy so I guess that would stirr some interest here!

He went also the extra mile and lightened up the crankshaf and the balancer to make the bike pick up revs faster... He doesn't have (to my knowledge) ha BV head nor the head is ported, so I guess that would still put @Dool in the lead somehow?

I'm not entirely convinced of this mod on the crankshaft, but hey he works for a Moto3 team, so he probably knows better!

Lightening the Crankshaft would be on the cards if I was splitting the case to install 6 gears.
Seems though that it would also vibrate more, I have found vibes before around 5000rpm with the 86mm piston.

 

[Sasa]

Lightening the Crankshaft would be on the cards if I was splitting the case to install 6 gears.
Seems though that it would also vibrate more, I have found vibes before around 5000rpm with the 86mm piston.

Lightening the Crankshaft is not an easy move.

You have to take in account the weight of the crank, how it is distribute and it's polar moment of inertia w.r.t. the crank axle. And this has to be carefully modded in conjuction with the counterbalancer, otherwise it all goes off the windows...
I wouldn't do it without a properly set CAD/CAE 3D model, where you can re-evaluate these things as you virtually mod your model, and simulate the influence of the RPM range.

Take also in account that probably 86mm pistons are heavier than the stock ones, creating already some imbalance (you felt it at 5000RPM, probably that is close to resonancy of the rod), if you lightne up the crank that would make the problem even worse!

 

[Dool]

Lightening the Crankshaft is not an easy move.

You have to take in account the weight of the crank, how it is distribute and it's polar moment of inertia w.r.t. the crank axle. And this has to be carefully modded in conjuction with the counterbalancer, otherwise it all goes off the windows...
I wouldn't do it without a properly set CAD/CAE 3D model, where you can re-evaluate these things as you virtually mod your model, and simulate the influence of the RPM range.

Take also in account that probably 86mm pistons are heavier than the stock ones, creating already some imbalance (you felt it at 5000RPM, probably that is close to resonancy of the rod), if you lightne up the crank that would make the problem even worse!

Thanks, I wanted an excuse not to do it, was not high on my list anyway.
Maybe after the 511

 

[Dool]

How Good are your ears?

443 has done more kms but very few, the 500 has done less than 30 and has quietened down an amazing amount from first start up.

 

[Dool]

Never good with making friends so, I'm aiming for 511cc, what with @RCruiser and Sam and some Italian Guy having 500cc I need an edge I think.
This project came about by mistake and will most likely be a bigger mistake by the time it concludes.
I await but 1 component ( global supply issues etc ) I would specify but hey, that would be stoopid!

 

[Dool]

Not happy with my 37mm Throttle Body, so it gets replaced with a 36 which had a weird TPS that I had to cut out and modify the shaft to turn a OEM TPS .
So no MAP ! and cold start is a piece of 3mm Vacuum tube still.

 

[Dool]

Easy to tackle with this.

 

[Dool]

So no MAP ! and cold start is a piece of 3mm Vacuum tube still.
Well convinced I was almost there I attempted to start up this morning to no avail, LifePo ran out of life and got hot, so I sat that to one side, it reads low 11's and I am wary of charging, perhaps it will come good by itself ?
I have back up and with that connected kept going, thinking I had zero throttle and was just working the Idle screw, no luck didnt even sound close and was locking up at TDC, not being able to rock it back ( would fall off the Bench) I was forced to rotate the Engine backwards via the Flywheel ( cools the starter motor ! ) eventually I found that the throttle was actually not zero at rest ( kinda explains why I lost 20% throttle pull! ) so after sorting that out I tried again and nothing.
Last night I had the laptop connected and did the throttle learn so it was close by! connects easy and I hit read all, strange Map 1 is all zeros on Map 2 it starts and I get my idle set,.

Bench came in very handy , my Back is not sore

 

[Dool]

Beware of the Red Box
Without it being connected to the Software you have no idea of what is going on

 

[Dool]

I hooked up the RB to my PC and sure enough the INJ Ve was populated with Zeros, not that I thought the Laptop lied but just to be sure to be sure , I have since reloaded the latest test map and should be ready to check the cold start ( or any Start ! ) in the morning.
May do that startup with the Sofware running, to be sure,,,,

 

[Sasa]

I hooked up the RB to my PC and sure enough the INJ Ve was populated with Zeros, not that I thought the Laptop lied but just to be sure to be sure , I have since reloaded the latest test map and should be ready to check the cold start ( or any Start ! ) in the morning.
May do that startup with the Sofware running, to be sure,,,,

Make sure the TPS calibration is fine (check voltage on the lower part of the TPS gauge) to see if something hasn't gone wonky when you adjusted the throttle cable!

 

[Dool]

Good Point, the TPS installation was a bit rough

Should be good now, throttle Cable was routed okay before the Tank went on! May still be in need of a longer cable as it is now on the left side after all.
Ive made a screwdriver to go where others do not and will play with the Balance between the Butterfly and Air screw to see if it effects idle stability,

This is the Ultimate TB after all 36mm

 

[Dool]

This morning I played with Air Bypass screw and the Butterfly, the Throttle Body is a very simple device when you get in to it!
With the Electronic components removed and their holes tapped and blanked off there is only 2 circuits, the Butterfly valve of course and the Air Bypass, both of which have other names. 3 circuits because I am feeding air to one of the holes for my Cold start

So I set the bike Idling and closed the butterfly until the engine would only run with the Bypass which I adjusted with my super screwdriver, now it should start up tomorrow!

My U Beaut Airoplane battery came back from the dead by it self and was nearly 12v when I connected it to the LifePo4 charger last I looked it had risen to 13 something, paranoid about charging it so will probably turn it off soon!

If it holds 14 overnight it will go back in and I can have a ride in the Morning, expect it to better as its 36 that magic number albeit not a Carby

 

[Dool]

Being such a simple device is no guarantee it seems, bastard to start but ran beautifully, a short ride and stopped for 5mins and it was a pig to get going but again ran well after it started.
This morning I gave it just a fraction more butterfly and little less Air screw and it seems better, the next cold start will be interesting as will a Dyno chart.
Stock gearing I am doing 5000Rpm 100Kph with less than 25% throttle, that does leave some in reserve!

As much as it would seem impossible 50% gains are about to achieved, we have come a long way from thinking 20% was a fancy claim

How much is attributed to the Throttle Body as opposed to the Displacement or the Cam or the mod to the Ports and Combustion Chamber not forgetting my BTY exhaust system is near impossible to determine but that is what I have a go at after this has proven itself on the Dyno.

Instead of working up from stock I will work down from the Peak of the 500.

Hardest change to reverse would be the Head so I might skip that and reduce the Displacement by 5.8% trying to keep similar compression.

If just 8% more displacement to a 411 and all these mods got 48% Then a 471 having 14.6% increase in displacement and all these mods must be in the 53% range, doesent seem possible

 

[Dool]

36mm Throttle Body is installed again started well, Idled strong but the middle of the Day bit hot for a spin, I will wait till later

 

[Dool]

Having a cold start that includes a screw in a hose is not everyone's cup of Tea so I set about to make use of the lever on the handle bars that is used least, Choke, Bi-Starter whatever, it was always pretty useless now I have adapted an Air Horn electric valve to accept the stock cable, I wouldnt use it on an Airplane but perhaps at my altitude it will be ok, not Rocket Science!

So sure of it that I have mounted it with a cable tie to the dodgy Throttle cable

 

[Dool]

I assumed all was set for a ride this morning , bike took a bit to get to start but started and seemed ok.
Idle was a bit low and without giving it much thought I adjusted the Air screw out a touch and rode off.
Pulled like a truck but did not seem correct and idled lower when it got hot but still pulled great.
Came home connected to the laptop and didnt take much notice of the fact that the ECT and IAT were not displayed by the software, I had modified a Map and managed to save it without the Sensor values so after working that out I opened another map and photographed the values went back and inserted them to the running map.
By the time I had finished I wasnt sure if I had the right map with the Mods or not so I will connect again before starting tomorrow

 

[Dool]

The 2 heads look similar as do the 2 Bikes the differences are Subtle
The Cam pic is important, every time I install a Cam and mostly I do not do 2 in a Day, I check the Timing as per the Book with results that vary and can not be easily changed. This is one of the better ones but was better ( if better is the lines on the sprocket lining up with the Head/Cam cover face) on the 443 which was closer.
But closer to what? the mark on the flywheel is approximate because of a couple of factors and the sprocket is pumped out in the thousands.
An adjustable Cam sprocket is required along with Degree wheels and Pointers,
Future Job!

 

[Dool]

Today just for fun I took the Head off the 500 and put it back on the 443, not so fast!,

So first the one bike goes up on the Bench and its head is removed, that Bike is removed from the Bench and the next bike goes up.
the Head is removed from that Bike and it goes down the other Bike goes back on the Bench and the Head from the First Job goes onto the Bike on the Bench?, Hopefully one of them starts up at the end of all this, and it did.
The 443 is now breathing thru its original "Pearler " head and with a 36mm TB to see if it can take/needs more! Test ride tomorrow.

500 goes back on the Bench and is reduced to 471 and OEM throttle Body, OEM head and HTC Cam if Fedex can sort their shit out and I get the said Cam

.Fedex is shit here, they consolidated with TNT and went downhill at a rate of Knots I would complain to them but that would be a waste of time as they are!



So here are the 2 disabled Himalayans, 2 exhausts hanging up ( wear gloves for that part !) ( that was Easy but the second petrol tank came off before I had spot for it ! it sat on the back of the Ute for want of a better place), need more shelves. Or less crap on the shelves I have already
Interesting building and riding 2 different Builds at once and slightly confusing as well, not saying I got bits mixed up but just saying

After Swapping Heads previously I noticed the 500 improvement of 1 second 0 to 100 and the 443 was still capable of it's previous time when tested so the difference was in the Inlet/Manifold/Throttle Body area..
If you take a look at the Bs3 you can see the Carby is quite close to the Head whereas the EFI version is further away, part of the INB Carb conversion is the longer connection between the Carb and the Airbox! Part number irrelevant because I do not have an Airbox!

Tensioning Head Bolts, I just want to give away something here!, the Front, Right hand side Head bolt Hole has a tendency to fill with Oil, it can be a Big Problem.
I would recommend using a Syringe to suck out the oil from there, seriously.

I found some indication that I have Over Stressed this Build. the clean spot where the Exhaust Valve has "Kissed" the Piston is not evident on either Head/Exhaust valve. This is the 443.